tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post7933080342881973862..comments2023-10-20T06:48:04.662-05:00Comments on Lord of the Green Dragons: UP ON A TREE STUMP #2: Humor in the Original CampaignRob Kuntzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17648200357715492214noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-29789702627138937252009-03-27T22:04:00.000-05:002009-03-27T22:04:00.000-05:00I don't "get" (as Ghanian's say)adversarial DMs, e...I don't "get" (as Ghanian's say)adversarial DMs, either. Heck. You have all sorts of chances to battle and win and lose as a DM through the advent of endless encounters, no need to make the odds uneven. I guess it has to do with ego, or perhaps insecurity, who knows?<BR/><BR/>I've experienced flawed DMing in that style and thereafter never again played in that gaming environment; and I suppose that is the best advice, and to let the DM, and other players if there are any, know exactly why you're quitting the game. I must add that many of these "cheated" players have, in my recollection, gone on to be very good, if not only fair-minded, DMs; so there can always be a silver lining to a dark-DM's tale.Rob Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17648200357715492214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-72144271801340747962009-03-27T15:12:00.000-05:002009-03-27T15:12:00.000-05:00I'm sure the criticism will show up sooner or late...I'm sure the criticism will show up sooner or later on some board. Back at the end of the 80's, when I started playing the game and visited my first local game stores, I remember that there was this attitude that considering the Tomb of Horros as some sort of epitomy of DMing to keep "these pesky players in their place" was something of a "cool" factor, like some inside joke that proved that you were a "real DM". <BR/><BR/>I never understood that mentality, personally. <BR/><BR/>I sure wanted to play the Tomb of Horrors (and never did), but I'd have expected the DM to show the kind of challenging qualities you speak of when talking about Lake Geneva, not some kind of ego-trip gone awry.Benoisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18318309230835219538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-64994965038455332552009-03-26T15:41:00.000-05:002009-03-26T15:41:00.000-05:00Already answered in my response to same above.Than...Already answered in my response to same above.<BR/><BR/>Thanks Rafael.<BR/><BR/>Oh, yes there are abusive people who "pretend" to be DMing, but the rules are quite clear on such instances, so I would say that the point is: not honoring the rules regarding fairness in DMing disqualifies one as capable of handling said station; they are in it for some power trip, or for something else entirely outside of the scope/spirit of the rules as understood and as we DMed these in the play-test period 1972-1973.Rob Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17648200357715492214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-70313467233492868572009-03-26T14:52:00.000-05:002009-03-26T14:52:00.000-05:00wow, great post, Rob!I must ask something else abo...wow, great post, Rob!<BR/>I must ask something else about "His opponents were the players, we all knew that, and he did too."<BR/><BR/>would you say that Gary didnt played "against" the players, but make the game dificult and challange to the?<BR/><BR/>maybe a misperception (?) of this is what makes people think that he was a abusive DM, no?rafael beltramehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13028259465633616284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-86553287805464813622009-03-25T20:28:00.000-05:002009-03-25T20:28:00.000-05:00"Facet Two, particularly the business of distracti..."Facet Two, particularly the business of distracting the players with a bit of humor or by going to the rest-room made me laugh"<BR/><BR/>Yep! :) Eric Shook looked at me when I recounted that the other day and said, "Yeahhh. I do remember you going to the bathroom a lot..."Rob Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17648200357715492214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-69122652918780827782009-03-25T20:23:00.000-05:002009-03-25T20:23:00.000-05:00The actual thought that someone might summarize my...The actual thought that someone might summarize my commentary as suggesting that either EGG or myself were abusive DMing actually made me laugh real hard, thanks!<BR/><BR/>This is where the true division lies between what people perceive through rules and by implementing them on different levels and at different times.<BR/><BR/>The condensed version is stated:<BR/><BR/>"His opponents were the players, we all knew that, and he did too. There wasn't an ordering of political correctness and a false cloud of pretentiousness which I've seen portrayed in modern RPGs. This was a game of strategy and tactics, and that meant, on both sides, that outwitting the opponents involved was now at hand..."<BR/><BR/>This is to make it utterly clear that this is how we (players and DMs) perceived this. The fairness of DMs is never a question, for in doing so you must honor the neutrality of the station maintained. That's part of the game, just as any other games has rules sets; and we are definitely dealing with many Masters here of not only games design, history, game theory and so forth, but mature adults (wel,, I as on my way with all the guys coaxing/coaching, and at a frenetic pace and speed). We are here talking about some of the best game designers of the time--Gygax, Mike Carr, Arneson, Don Lowry, Mike Reese, Leon Tucker, Jeff Perren, and the list goes on. <BR/><BR/>So, No, there was no abuse, but the idea that we were still opponents, well, that is consistent in all games, and was no different then. I really do not see where the other line of thought ever entered into the picture, really, as a DM, though not adversarial, still role-plays adversarial NPCs/Monsters (and if good, to their fullest), and that through the conduit of his or her mind, as he or she, fortunately, can't afford a brain transplant, let's say, to that of an ORC, at mid-point of the adventure... Gary being a mighty fine opponent only transferred his toughness into those encounters and they were played smartly and without reserve, just as he had done on the tabletop or sand table :)Rob Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17648200357715492214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-82647342040907495312009-03-25T20:03:00.000-05:002009-03-25T20:03:00.000-05:00Great entry! Facet Two, particularly the business ...Great entry! <BR/><BR/>Facet Two, particularly the business of distracting the players with a bit of humor or by going to the rest-room made me laugh. <BR/><BR/>When a DM does this kind of things consciously without giving it away to the players, knowing what he/she's doing, you've probably got a "master" on your hands. That's usually with that kind of DMs, the ones who know the game isn't entirely about what's going on in the game but also what happens around the table, that the best games are played.<BR/><BR/>That's not the kind of advice you often read in guides to DMing. <BR/><BR/>Does Facet One mean that Gary had a "DM versus Players" competitive mentality? I'm asking as a sort of preemptive strike against quotes from people who would then conclude that he "had to be an abusive DMs and that's why the old editions suck".Benoisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18318309230835219538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-64733717734883309862009-03-25T19:24:00.000-05:002009-03-25T19:24:00.000-05:00Thanks one and all (or one and two)...Lots more on...Thanks one and all (or one and two)...<BR/><BR/>Lots more on the way from the Wayback Machine...Rob Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17648200357715492214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-79096552115678800252009-03-25T16:46:00.000-05:002009-03-25T16:46:00.000-05:00I'm really enjoying these entries, Rob. Another gr...I'm really enjoying these entries, Rob. Another great one. Thanks for sharing!<BR/><BR/>Rhu.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016645013375966173.post-31433441556128118362009-03-25T12:43:00.000-05:002009-03-25T12:43:00.000-05:00That's fantastic! Concrete DM advice plus a glimps...That's fantastic! Concrete DM advice plus a glimpse into the way you played the game! I couldn't ask for more :-)Guy Fullertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034114718540912559noreply@blogger.com